NWoBHM Vault! - Dawnwatcher

DAWNWATCHER – This outstanding Yorkshire (UK) band has always been quite unknown to the metal public, but you can count this one among the best bands from the NWOBHM movement. Their “progressive” leanings will undoubtedly appeal to fans of bands like SHIVA or SARACEN, RUSH and DEEP PURPLE. Following a feature in the local newspaper, Keighley News, I had recently founder member Ges Smith (bass / keyboards) answering my questions.

MAY 2005

Let’s go to the early days, when did you start your musical career and can you remember the bands in which you played before DAWNWATCHER ?
I started playing bass in bands in 1964 some school friends and I formed a band called the Sitriats later re-named The Ratfinks, this went through various member changes until it split in 1967. I joined a soul band but this was not really my scene. The band split in 1968 and me and 2 other members Noel Simms and Stef Strutek formed a prog rock type band called Carnal Horus which included local singer Ian Shackleton and eventually Peter Kaberry on drums. This band went through various changes including a name change (Smokey Ring Hat Band) until it evolved into Kaboss, which became quite successful and well followed. Eric Knowles (who later became soundman for Dawnwatcher) came into Kaboss early 1972 on keyboards taking over on drums from Peter Kaberry on early 73. The band eventually split mid 73. A new theatrical rock band - Abyss - was formed with me on bass and keyboards (I used a set of bass pedals on a stand - see photo - because I could play a lot faster than using my feet), Pete Kaberry on drums and Malcolm Hanson on vocals and guitar, we were later re-joined by Stef Srutek. This band split in 1975 I rejoined Eric Knowles (drums) Stef Srutek (guitar) to form the band Intrepid Birdman I again played bass and keyboards.

When and how was DAWNWATCHER formed ? Who was in the original line up ?
In late 1976 Pete Kaberry was approached by Billy Barton who asked if he was interested in joining a band with him, Craig Richardson on guitar and a guy called Mark on bass . Pete suggested bring ing me in on keyboards and I was followed by Eric on sound. This was the beginning of Dawnwatcher. In Early 1977 Mark left and I took over on bass (this was my preferred instrument). Rob Binns came in on keyboards but left in April 77 leaving the band as a four piece, it stayed in this format (except for a brief unsuccessful period with two guitarists) until Pete Darley joined early 1979.

Now, can you tell us a bit more about the keyboards equipment you and later Pete Darley were using ? I mean the way the band was using synthesizers was highly original, they were considered as a real instrument, on the same level of importance as the guitar or the drums. Some impressive disharmonic chords also used to create an oppressive atmosphere. Many young bands are now bringing back the old Mellotron and Hammond organ sound in their music, so it would be interesting to know what was the keyboards gear used in DAWNWATCHER ?
My own equipment was quite basic. I used a Tiesco Wem portable organ. A Clavioline (this was a valve based multi sound keyboard (almost the forerunner of the synthesizer) and an unknown make large console organ which didn’t sound too clever as an actual organ but had an amazing harmonious and mellow string effect. These were all fed through a tape based Watkins Copycat echo chamber. I also used a Burns Baldwin bass guitar which eventually gave way to my cherished 1965 Fender Precision.
Pete Darleys equipment was quite a bit more sophisticated. He used a Hammond L100 with a Leslie L122 - this gave the typical forceful rock organ sound beloved by many bands. He also used a Moog Micromoog synthesizer and a Mellotron 400. The latter was a tape-based keyboard which consisted of racks of pre-recorded tapes (usually strings and choir). When a note was pressed the appropriate tape for that note would run, dropping back when the note was released. It was a beautiful instrument but it did have its faults. It could be affected by temperature and humidity, but mainly the note length was only as long as the tape length, which gave only about 10 seconds before running out of sound. His Synth and the Mellotron were both fed into a Carlsbro Marlin P.A. amp and an H H 2x15 BL speaker cab. Pete did use his keyboards with great imagination and originality and they were certainly considered a real instrument, but there again in Dawnwatcher every instrument (and voice) was considered to be of the same importance. This was probably the reason the band sounded so powerful and full of drive.

What were your musical influences back then ? I wouldn’t be surprised to find some big names of the progressive rock scene of the seventies as well as Deep Purple/Rainbow.
My personal musical influences were quite wide starting with the Stones and Pretty Things in the early to mid 60’s. Then into the progressive era with Pink Floyd, early Genesis, Deep Purple, The Nice, Aurther Brown, Yes, King Crimson, Led Zep and many others. In those days if we weren’t rehearsing or playing we were seeing other bands. While me and Pete were in Kaboss we were devastated when Black Sabbath brought their first album out, it was just the same music that we were playing and we thought we were original.

Can you confirm that DAWNWATCHER was very popular on the local scene with an impressive number of dedicated fans. What kind of venues were you playing and did the band play live on a regular basis ?
Dawnwatcher was very popular on the local scene and had a large following. Almost everyone from that era knew of the band and most had seen us perform, even now people I don’t know are always stopping to chat and usually asking the eternal question “Are you still playing” (actually I am but now only for my own amusement). We played most types of venue from smallish smokey pubs to large halls, universities, colleges etc. We played on average once a week, sometimes three or four times. We used to do regular trips up the North East of England and do three nights in a row at the clubs up there (not the same club every night). We had a large following up there too. It was a good area to play then because the people lived in separate mining communities and one town or village would have a large club that served five or six communities and they were always full and vibrant.

Please tell us about a typical DAWNWATCHER set list in the seventies. How many original songs had you written before the first single release, any cover songs ? I know at least 2 songs that never made it to the vinyl stage : Attitudes and Children of the Night.
A typical set list would contain about ten songs and last about one and a quarter hours obviously this would change if we were expected to do more then one set or if we were the only band playing. We could have lasted about two hours if needed. Every song we did was original. From the very beginning of the band it was decided to write our own material and not do any covers. I personally have not been in a band playing cover versions since the 60’s when I was in the soul band. Most of our music was written with someone bringing in an idea then the whole band contributing to the finished song.
I can’t remember how many songs were written before the first single. Many were written and gradually dropped and forgotten about along the way but since our first gig in February 1977 we always had enough songs to last a session. Sadly not only did many of the songs never reach vinyl stage but most didn’t even reach the tape stage so there is no real record they ever existed.

What were the live shows looking like from the audience ? Any backdrop, pyrotechnic effects, etc…? Please tell us a few nice stories about life on the road
Judging by audience response and feedback I think the band looked quite impressive, especially later on. We had our own lighting both colour, clear and strobed and although nothing compared to todays standards they gave a good appearance and created an excellent atmosphere. We also used pyrotechnics (thunderflashes etc). We did have a backdrop featuring the band’s logo but this was not big enough to be effective except in the smaller places.
We were playing our local main hall once (Victoria Hall) and a full audience was expected (500 or so). We hired a dry ice machine for extra effect and bought a large quantity of dry ice. We had never used a machine like this before and unwittingly overloaded the machine. The effect was quite stunning. Dry ice poured off the stage like a vast waterfall until our audience had totally disappeared. The roadies frantically pulled of the machine off the back of the stage and into the yard at the back of the building. The hall was set in extensive parklands with numerous trees and the whole area filled up with a dank cold mist, it was just like a horror film.
We were renowned for being loud and powerful and once during a sound check at a large club I hit a single note and a large plate glass window at the back of the room split from top to bottom, luckily no one but the band was there to witness it.
A not so nice story occurred once when Billy was helping to wire some thunderflashes, one exploded in his face and he had to rush to hospital (although badly burnt he made a full recovery with no scarring). This left us with a gig, a large audience and no vocalist, non of us knew the words even if we could have sung. We went ahead and did the gig without vocals and surprisingly went down a storm. Although I do think the audience was a little sympathetic.
Our worst gig was a large church hall in Leicester (it was festival week). There was an audience of about twelve - all arty types. We went on stage following a poet. After our first number a lady stood up and complained about the volume, she demanded that a vote should be taken, we gave in and went home early.
One of the oddest places we played (3 or 4 times actually) was the Turks Head pub in Dewsbury (Yorkshire). The pub had many rooms and one was set aside for the band. After we were set up there was just enough room for about twenty people stood against the back wall with others peering through doorways. After each number there would be loud applause from the rest of the pub from an audience we couldn’t see and they couldn’t see us - strange.
One of our most bizarre but most successful gigs was ironically the very last gig before the band first split in July 1980. It was again at our local main Hall (Victoria Hall) and we were the entertainment for a bikers convention. The whole park surrounding the hall was filled with tents and motorbikes. Hundreds of bikers drank the bar dry and the hall floor was literally ankle deep in smashed glasses, it was quite scary, but luckily they loved us and we really went down a storm. Ah happy days.

I heard DAWNWATCHER shared the stage with some other local NWOBHM heroes , in particular with RHABSTALLION. Do you remember them and what did you think about their music ?
We shared the stage with various other local heroes, notably Saxon, Bastille, Rhabstallion and lots of lesser-known bands. Saxon were an excellent flash but straight heavy metal band - highly entertaining, Rhabstallion were also excellent but a little too mellow for me somehow.
We were once supposed to be supporting the Heavy Metal Kids at Bradford University. They didn’t show up leaving just us with a full capacity audience that was in a very ugly mood. We went on stage to jeers and boo’s but by the end of the second number this had changed to cheers and applause. This happened in the early stages of the band and seemed to be the breakthrough we wanted.

Is there a special meaning to the band’s logo (the eye inside the triangle ) ?
I feel a bit of a fool now. There is a special meaning to the band’s logo but unfortunately I can’t think what it meant. This was Pete Kaberry’s idea and represents the Eye of Horus, this type of thing was one of Pete’s interests (Hence the name Carnal Horus, the name of one of the bands we were in earlier).

Like many bands from the era, DAWNWATCHER decided to finance their own releases, without the support of a label. Did DAWNWATCHER feel comfortable with this way of promoting the band : touring and releasing self financed records ?
I think really that we were a very self-sufficient band. We had all our own equipment, lighting, a large P.A., two vehicles - a big box van and a converted 57 seater coach. We were beholden to no one and could basically do our own thing. Financing and releasing our own singles seemed an obvious continuance of this without having to chase after big record companies. Also Dawnwatcher seemed to be gradually promoting itself without a great deal of work on our part.

Prior to the vinyl singles, were there some official demo tapes produced and sold at gigs, as the band played live at least 3 years before recording its first 7” single ?
Ges Smith : There were no official demo tapes produced or sold at gigs, this is sadly why there are so few recordings of our songs available, any that were done were mostly for experience and to basically see what we sounded like.

In 1980, DAWNWATCHER released its first 7 inches vinyl single, featuring “Spellbound” and “Hall of mirrors”. The single was issued without the usual picture sleeve. Although the prog influences are obvious, both songs are heavy and powerful as well, probably appealing to both progressive and heavy metal fans back then. Do you remember how many copies of the single were pressed ?
The single was released with a Plain white sleeve with Limited Edition printed on it, later it was just a plain sleeve. I don’t remember just how many were pressed although I think initially it was 200. I like your description of the single, this is just what we set out to achieve and I don’t think I just speak for myself when I say I loved playing both the tracks.

How did the band sell this new release ? Did you manage to secure a distribution deal to sell your records across the country or even abroad ?
We sold the single ourselves and through friends and acquaintances we didn't have a distribution deal with anyone. I find it quite amazing that many of the singles have found their way abroad.

Following the release, did the band get some reviews or articles in the local newspapers, Sounds, Kerrang ? Did this release help the band in spreading their music to a wider audience ?

I do recall there were some reviews in local papers but I don’t have any copies and cannot remember really what was said in them. We did feature in the Sounds heavy metal chart for quite a few weeks (May , June and July), strangely with both sides of the single at different positions at the same time. Hall of Mirrors reached No. 5 I think with Spellbound close behind at around No. 12. The release certainly spread the bands name and, as I am finding out, still doing so.

Are you aware “Hall of Mirrors” was bootlegged on the “NWOBHM vol.4” Japanese CD in 1992 ? I would like to know what you think of bootlegs in general, and in particular when they are made to answer the call of desperate fans, willing to hear records long deleted (as it goes with many NWOBHM self financed records).
I wasn’t aware Hall of Mirrors was bootlegged on the Japanese CD but I am quite flattered at the interest shown, and I suppose it spread the music to a global audience.

DAWNWATCHER then got a nationwide (if not worldwide) exposure when “Firing on all Eight” was selected for inclusion on the legendary New Electric Warriors sampler LP released on Logo sometime in 1980 (one of my favourite NWOBHM sampler, along with Guardian records “Roxcalibur” and Heavy Metal records “Heavy Metal Heroes”). The sampler LP was advertised as a compilation of the best local heavy metal talents, still (at the time of release) unfairly ignored by the major labels. How was DAWNWATCHER asked to contribute to the LP and did you record this track especially for the sampler ? Any good feedback in the press about the NEW ELECTRIC WARRIORS LP or DAWNWATCHER in particular ?
Billy would be able to tell you the details of the connection between Dawnwatcher and the album he was the go between and organised it all. The song was already written and it was decided it would be ideal for the album. I seem to remember the album being reviewed in the Melody Maker around September 1980.

I think next came the first split, in mid year 1980. Please give us some explanations, because with a 7” single just released and an inclusion on a famous sampler LP the future could look pretty bright, no ? When did the band reform after this, tell us about the new line up.
The split was quite bizarre. I don’t really know what happened. Everything seemed to be getting better and better and then suddenly Eric Knowles announced he had been offered a professional job as soundman for a band called Jasper (later called Smart Ass) and had decided to accept and that he would be leaving within the month. At this point it must be stressed that from the outset Eric had played a vital role within the band and was almost as much a member as anyone else. Not only did he look after the sound, he took charge of all the electronics, drove the bandwagon and was included in most of the decisions within the band including some musical ones (he had been a drummer and keyboards player). After this announcement lethargy seemed to set in, so much so that when Eric left it was decided to split the band, I never really understood why. We played our last gig on 19 July 1980. The P.A. and the band wagons were then sold. A crazy decision looking back now, dismantling all the bands infrastructure, as the compilation album was about to be released.

Moving into 1982, DAWNWATCHER released their second and last self financed single “Backlash / Salvador’s dream”. Musically it was again a killer record with heavy chords performed by Pete Darley (keyboards) and brilliant emotional singing. The single achieved a high rank in Kerrang “ Top 30 Kuts” charts. Again, how did you sell the single and was it reviewed in the press ? How many copies were pressed , did it sell well ?
Backlash was originally recorded as a second single in 1980 with me on bass. It was re-recorded for release with the new line-up.

As part of the renewed interest in the NWOBHM scene, especially since the mid nineties (don’t like to say this I must confess because for me and many people the interest simply never disappeared), DAWNWATCHER’s fame has spread across all parts of the world, and the interest in the band is stronger than ever (sometimes from fans who weren’t even born when the band was active). Are you aware of your old band current cult status, does this come as a surprise that people still enjoy DAWNWATCHER 25 years later ?
Ges Smith : I was not aware of the bands current status until recently although I had heard that the first single was swapping hands at quite a hefty price. I am amazed but really pleased that people still get a lot out of Dawnwatcher’s music it is very gratifying.

It is a bit annoying that apart from the two original and very scarce vinyl singles, nothing really is available from the band’s music, especially when keeping in mind that DAWNWATCHER’s repertoire was far more extensive than the few songs released on the singles. I know there are some live and demo tapes surviving somewhere. Don’t you think the time may have come now to dig in the archives and work on releasing a full DAWNWATCHER long player at long last ?
I can understand your annoyance with the lack of songs available. Unfortunately most of them were not recorded and a lot of them that were would not really be enough to feature on a full-length album as a serious release, although obviously some can go out as a gratifier.

Are you still in touch with the other band members today ?
At the moment the only other band members I see are Pete Kaberry occasionally and Billy Barton very occasionally.

Anything else I forgot or that you would like to add ? The last words are for you.
When I realised just what was happening out there I decided to look for myself. I was distressed to find that my name was never mentioned and that John Bootle was getting the glory for the whole of the bands history. I now realise that this is because the only official mention of the band’s line-up is on the back of the re-recorded Backlash single. I am hoping this interview can go some way now to setting the record straight.

More photos of Dawnwatcher can be found at the Photo-section!

Interview by Fred Dronsart.

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